Relato uso de Clomid... se possivel leiam !

[NOFX2003]

Opa e ai !!!!!!!1

Então é o seguinte resolvi postar isso aqui meio q pra informação de maneira alguma quero incentivar as pessoas ao nao uso dele mais é bom dar uma pesquisada !!

Ontem (quinta) fez 21 dias da ultima dura ! Bom li na bula q o clomid tem um corante se nao me engano q pode causar reações alérgicas a quem tem asma ou teve, eu ja tive bronquite asmatica !!! Bom nao sei se foi uma reção adversa mais ao tomar os 6 comp (li na bula q o tratamento é normalmente com 2 por dia ) de uma vez apos algumas horas senti uma forte tontura e uma dor de cabeça insurpotável ! Nunca tive isso, estou bebendo mta agua mais apesar disso minha urina estava extremamente amarela hj até meio laranja e senti fortes dores nos rins, nao sei se isso pode ser causa por uma hiperdosagem do clomid se é q existe isso mais estou tomando um por dia e ja me sinto normal com um pouco de dor nos rins ainda !! Bom só queria relatar isso e alguem q puder me ajudar explicando os efeitos agradeço qualquer comentário é bem-vindo !!

Abraço

Lucas

[Visitante Dr.Guido]

Por isso que nao recomendo frontloading com clomid...

[j i u]

Por isso que nao recomendo frontloading com clomid...

e como vc indica?

[Visitante Dr.Guido]

dessa forma:

Fertil Steril 2003 Jan;79(1):203-5

Use of clomiphene citrate to reverse premature andropause secondary to steroid abuse.

Tan RS, Vasudevan D.

Department of Family and Community Medicine, University of Texas Health Sciences Center, Houston, Texas 77030, USA. robert.s.tan@uth.tmc.edu

OBJECTIVE: To report a case of symptomatic hypogonadism induced by the abuse of multiple steroid preparations that was subsequently reversed by clomiphene. DESIGN: Case report. SETTING: University-affiliated andrology practice within family practice clinic. PATIENT(S): A 30-year-old male. INTERVENTION(S): Clomiphene citrate, 100-mg challenge for 5 days, followed by treatment at same dose for 2 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Clinical symptoms, androgen decline in aging male questionnaire, total T, FSH, LH. RESULT(S): Reversal of symptoms, normalization of T levels with LH surge, restoration of pituitary-gonadal axis. CONCLUSION(S): Clomiphene citrate is used typically in helping to restore fertility in females. This represents the first case report of the successful use of clomiphene to restore T levels and the pituitary-gonadal axis in a male patient. The axis was previously shut off with multiple anabolic steroid abuse.

Case report

A 30-year-old patient presented with severe depression and loss of libido and energy. He admitted to the use of steroids for bodybuilding purposes for several months. He had obtained nandrolone decanoate, deca Durabolin, primobolan depot, and Winstrol from a foreign country without a prescription. He is on an antidepressant, bupropion (Wellbutrin, Glaxo Smith Kline, Philadelphia, PA). While showering, he noticed that his testicles were gradually shrinking, despite a more muscular body. He does not report anosmia or any childhood orchitis. There was no history of galactorrhea or gynecomastia. There was no family history of hypogonadism.

Physical examination of the genitalia revealed fully descended testicular size of 4 × 2.5 × 1.5 cm on the right and 3.3 × 2.5 × 1.5 com on the left. He had no hypospadias nor abnormalities in the epididymis. There was no goiter, gynecomastia, or visual field defects. Muscle strength in all four limbs was grade 5 in both flexor and extensor groups. The androgen decline in aging male (A.D.A.M.) questionnaire was applied, and he scored 8/10. For standardization purposes, blood work was done at 9 . Just before clomiphene citrate administration, laboratory examination revealed a total T of 71 ng/dL (reference range, 260-1000 ng/dL), free T of 29 pg/dL (reference range, 34-194 pg/dL), bioavailable T of 61 ng/dL (reference range, 84-402 ng/dL), LH of 3.7 miu/mL (reference range, 1.5-9.3 miu/mL), FSH of 2.4 miu/mL (reverence range 1.4-18.1 miu/mL), prolactin of 5 ng/mL (reference range, 2-18 ng/mL), and TSH of 1.36 miu/mL (reference range, 0.40-5.50 miu/mL). Free and total Ts were measured by radioimmunoassay methods. Magnetic resonance imaging did not show any abnormality in the pituitary area. Cortisol and thyroxine were also in the normal ranges. Sperm samples were not collected as the patient declined. Total T levels rather than free or bioavailable T were used for follow-up.

He was challenged with 100 mg of clomiphene citrate for 5 days. Two weeks later, his total T was 828 ng/dL. The patient reported better moods and return of libido and energy, but still continued on his antidepressant. The patient was followed up, and 2 months after clomiphene citrate challenge, he had a relapse of symptoms including tiredness and loss of libido. At this time, his total T dropped again to 301 ng/dL. A decision was made to continue treatment with clomiphene citrate for 2 months. At the end of 2 months, his total T was 705 ng/dL, and LH was 26.3 miu/L (Fig. 1). The magnetic resonance imaging of the pituitary was repeated and remained normal. Symptoms resolved and the patient continues to be followed up.

Discussion

Clomiphene citrate is an orally administered, nonsteroidal ovulatory drug typically used in female infertility management. It has both estrogenic and antiestrogenic properties. Clomiphene citrate initiates a series of endocrinologic events that cause a gonadotropin surge, which in turn causes an increase in steroidogenesis. Clomiphene citrate is thought not to have any inherent androgenic or anti-androgenic effect. In this case, we were challenging the pituitary gland to produce a surge of gonadotropins to help restore function to the Leydig cells to produce T.

Clomiphene citrate has been shown to increase T levels in both normal and impotent hypogonadal men probably reflecting the primacy of estrogen over T in the feedback regulation of male gonadal function. In a small, double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study of clomiphene against placebo in impotent men with secondary hypogonadism, there was a significant rise of LH, FSH, and T with clomiphene [2]. However, the study in these 17 men did not reveal any improvement of sexual function as measured with questionnaires and penile tumescence and rigidity testing. Another study investigated the hormonal response to clomiphene in alcoholics with hypogonadism [3] and found that clomiphene can increase androgens and estrogens. The rise in estrogens was thought to be due to peripheral conversion of androgens to estrogens. Paradoxically, one study failed to show that clomiphene could restore pituitary testicular responsiveness in hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism but succeeded with human chorionic gonadotropin [4].

Clomiphene citrate has been used successfully in the treatment of idiopathic hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism induced by excessive exercise such as marathon running [5]. In that case report, reestablishment of the physiologic hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis with the return of normal T and gonadal function was achieved with clomiphene citrate (50 mg, 2 times per day) over 5 months. In our case, the reestablishment of eugonadal status was achieved with just a short challenge of clomiphene citrate 100 mg over 2 weeks, but the patient relapsed. He needed a longer course of 2 months of clomiphene citrate to maintain eugonadal status. Both cases, including ours, suggest that early intervention with clomiphene can restore the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis. We are still continuing to follow up our patient to establish long-term effects. The patient did not suffer from any hot flashes or other side effects from clomiphene citrate.

There have been no previously documented cases of clomiphene citrate improving exogenous steroid-induced testicular failure. The mechanism of initial testicular failure could be due to the suppression of LH due to the use of exogenous steroids, which in turn leads to decreased T levels. We postulate that clomiphene citrate can reestablish the axis even after steroid abuse has initially shut down the axis. It can induce the gonadotropin surge, initiate T levels to increase, and improve gonadal function and reverse symptoms. This was possible in this case as the patient was relatively young and presumably had a more elastic axis.

ESTUDO SOBRE CLOMID II:

Clomiphene and sexual enhancement

I am sure that a healthy man at any age can enhance testosterone. I am not sure that it will do much for his libido and sexual function.

I have tried a good number of hormonal supplements, and, based on my own experience and the scientific studies of others, I would say that it's not the way to go for sexual enhancement. While the dopamine route is not perfect either, medications such as bromocriptine at least have a measurable effect on sexual parameters (if they are applied in the correct manner).

For the whole concept of it, I believe that matters other than supplying hormones or precursors should be emphasized. All hormone supplementation has not been shown to enhance the sexuality of basically healthy men. And enhancing sexuality would be my primary aim anyway.

On the other hand, clomiphene citrate (Clomid) results in a character modification that I judge to be testosterone-driven.

The clomiphene citrate stimulates the hypothalamus in a manner that, several steps downwards, results in higher testosterone levels.

I have also experimented with tribulus terrestis and tongkat ali, both herbs that are said to increase testosterone levels on a pathway similar to clomiphene citrate.

Especially the tongkat ali has an effect similar to that of clomiphene citrate.

I both cases, I feel the testosterone by becoming aggressive more easily. Upon being provoked (for example in road traffic) I could spend minutes on imagining how I would maltreat a fellow driver who obstructed my path. I'd cut his ears, shoot his kneecaps, smash his balls, and drown him in a bathtub of human excrements.

But do I want to become more aggressive? Not really. I'm on the search for real great sex. I'm not a boxer or race driver, both of whom probably need aggressiveness to increase their chances of winning. Nor am I a body builder who would benefit from the anabolic component of an increased testosterone level.

Sadly enough, the character modification I had in mind (a general enhancement of libido and sexual performance) did not occur on any testosterone enhancement schedule.

I, for myself, have to make sense of my personal experience with testosterone-enhancing medications, especially when comparing them with scientific information on the same topic.

My current hypothesis (not a theory I would have invented myself) is that in the hormonal system, testosterone levels are not the crucial factor for enhanced libido and sexual performance. You probably have to have the appropriate receptor sites for the pro-sexual effect of testosterone, and the receptor sites have to be activated.

Apart from trying to be a good lay man, I'm also a layman. And like most laymen studying the endocrine system, I have initially strongly focused on hormones, and neglected the importance of receptors.

However, hormones exert their effects not just on tissue of any kind but only on tissue that has a chemical surface which is receptive to the hormone.

I assume that the effects of testosterone on libido and sexual performance are strongly correlated to certain receptor tissue in the brain (for the libido) and the reproductive organ (for erections). If you want to enhance, you will have to enhance both, hormones and receptor tissue.

Testosterone can only have a pro-libido and pro-sexual-performance effect if there are specific tissue receptors where it can dock on. On other tissue, testosterone has no effect.

As far as I understand it, I (and probably most other men) don't suffer from a lack of aggression receptor sites that can be influenced by increasing testosterone. With testosterone receptor sites for sexual prowess, however, I seem to have a number of receptor sites that largely correlates to my own testosterone production.

For a sexual effect from enhancing testosterone, both would have to be increased: testosterone AND receptor sites. Sadly enough, I have not come across any medication that claims to increase the number of sexual testosterone receptor sites.

[joaocarlon]

q isso Dr. Guido???

copiando e colando textos vc não vai ajudar a ninguem.....

q medicamento vc recomenda então???

[Pharmabio]

Hehehehehe... Bem, o primeiro texto é um relato de caso aonde um homem de 30 anos de idade, aparentemente normal apresentou atrofia testicular com o suo de alguns AE

[Danone]

eu ja usei clomid assim (com frontloading) e nao tive problemas...... mas ja vi relatos de dores de cabeca, sono, etc..... mas, se foi somente por causa do frontloading nao tem problema ne? 1 dia assim n mata....

[Garcia de Freitas]

bom , eu nao vou usar clomid ... o meu medico q recomendou q eu nao usa-se .

ele disse q devo deixar a testosterona voltar sozinha ... principalmente se algum dia eu quiser ter filhos , e quiser q eles nasçam saudaveis ....

ele ainda falou "depois se vc tiver um filho mongol no futuro , nao vai dizer q nao sabe o porque"

o medico me disse q mexer com hormonios , age diretamente nos nossos gens que vão ser transmitidos para nossos filhos .... entao ele falou : qto menos coisa vc misturar , melhor ... esqueça o clomid .

como eu quero ter filhos e uma familia um dia , vou deixar o clomid de lado .

[guila]

PO galera, fiquei na duvid agr...semana q vem acabo meu ciclo de dura e deca e eia a questao. tomo ou nao tomo?????????????????????????????

[rafão]

bom , eu nao vou usar clomid ... o meu medico q recomendou q eu nao usa-se .

ele disse q devo deixar a testosterona voltar sozinha ... principalmente se algum dia eu quiser ter filhos , e quiser q eles nasçam saudaveis ....

ele ainda falou "depois se vc tiver um filho mongol no futuro , nao vai dizer q nao sabe o porque"

o medico me disse q mexer com hormonios , age diretamente nos nossos gens que vão ser transmitidos para nossos filhos .... entao ele falou : qto menos coisa vc misturar , melhor ... esqueça o clomid .

como eu quero ter filhos e uma familia um dia , vou deixar o clomid de lado .

Sem comentários...Têm médicos que realmente é de se questionar se existem para ajudar ou falar besteiras, e se tratando do assunto esteróides anabolizantes, é duro achar um que realmente entenda do assunto.